Senior Advocate of Nigeria, SAN, Senator Victor Ndoma-Egba, is a chieftain of ruling All Progressives Congress, APC, and former Senate Leader and Chairman, Board of the Niger Delta Development Commission, NDDC. Ndoma-Egba who admitted that the sin of the APC of producing Muslim- Muslim ticket is not as bad as the sins committed by the PDP, also dwells on the nation’s socio-political and economic issues inimical to Nigeria’s growth. NSAN NDOMA-NEJI brings you excerpts of that interaction:
Your party has Muslim-Muslim ticket for the Presidency, do you think this is fair to people in other religion?
There is no major party today without sin. For instance, in my party, the All Progressives Congress, APC, I think our sin is the Muslim-Muslim ticket. In the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, their sin is that it is the turn of the South. In the Labour Party, LP, their sin is that they are unable to find party agents to cover all the wards in the country. In the New Nigeria Peoples Party, NNPP, they are heard only in Kano. Even in the LP, we hear so much about in social media, for the two weeks I was constantly in Ikom, I went out everyday, but saw their posters just twice. One in Ntansele, where Chris Agara hails from, and one in a place where I went to see a very prominent Igbo citizen.
Ikom people were shocked when I told them that the LP has a candidate and the candidate was from Ikom. The sin of the LP is that it is a technology-based party yet to find it’s roots. Of all the sins, I think that of the APC is the least for a number of reasons.
Our candidate famously has a pastor wife and she’s an active member of the Nigerian Christian community, so it is just a fraction of him that can be said to be Muslim. I think the sin of the APC has been exaggerated, because it is not as bad as the sin of the PDP, where you have a candidate taking the turn of the South. Back to Cross River State, maybe we can do a bit of historical analysis: If you recall in 1999, at the the beginning of this political episode, which we hope would move from an episode to permanent democracy, the defunct All People’s Party, APP and the PDP were equally balanced. The APP had five members of the House of Representatives and had a senator; the PDP had three members of the House of Representatives and two senators. In the House of Assembly, it was 13 to 12, so it was neatly balanced. The only advantage that the PDP had at that time was that we had a governor, Donald Duke. Now with the personality and weight of office, he was able to suck life out of the APP and we now assumed the notion that Cross River was a PDP state, forgetting that at the beginning, it was equally balanced. But the factor of the governor being the major determinant of our political thinking is why the APC will suck life out of the PDP and with his mirage of appointments, people take those appointments very seriously.
What has PDP got to offer? I listened to the outburst of some former governors and I think in that office, which happens to be the highest office here, there ought to be a distinction between the office and the person occupying the office; but that distinction is a very fine one, because the man carries the office everywhere. So it is not an office that should be desecrated, moreso coming from a party that has little or no legacy. I was one of them, but mercifully, they threw me out and I’m grateful to them but what is the legacy?
When I was in government in the days of late Dan Archibong, I was a commissioner then and I remember an argument in the State Executive Council about us taking a loan for rural electrification and the whole argument was “how can you be a government without owing?” The state was the least indebted and the Federal Ministry of Finance was putting a lot of pressure on the Cross River State government to take a loan and today we are third or fourth on the list of debtors, that is our legacy. Where are our oil wells and Bakassi? They have all been lost. Everything PDP has left for us is one loss after another. Kanu Agabi became Attorney-General of the Federation and that is the number one minister, because that is the only ministerial position recognised by the constitution, others are at the discretion of the President, and that was when we had the highest visibility for our support. After Kanu Agabi, we were downgraded to Minister for Power, Senator Liyel Imoke. When he left, we got Minister of State for Culture. Then late John Odey came, first as Information Minister and then they gave us senior Minister of Culture, and that was all. We were just having those ministerial positions, which are the entitlement of every state under the constitution and not a favour.
Do not forget that When Muhammadu Buhari came to campaign in 2015, they refused him the use of the stadium and he had to go to a primary school on Atu Street, Mayne Avenue. This is a Fulani man, who has never tied a wrapper, but they tied one on him without giving him any opportunity to practice and the man was struggling to get used to the wrapper, which almost made him fall but he did not, he only stumbled. The governor made a joke of him, but I had to lead a delegation of prominent Cross Riverians to see him and apologize, before he was sworn in. Then he told us a story of his relationship with Cross River as a soldier.
In spite of that humiliation, he assured us that he had put it behind him. During Buhari’s time, we got Chief Justice of Nigeria, Head of Service, HoS, Chief of Naval Staff, Minister of the Niger Delta Affairs, chairman of Niger Delta Development Commission, NDDC and Auditor-General of the Federation all at the same time. So, I challenge the PDP to refresh our memories. As far back as 1984, when I was Commissioner for Works, the bridge in Ikom was a major issue and it was restricting trades with Calabar ports, because the containers’ move was limited. I went there with my engineers who did the measurements in my presence and we asked the Shippers Council what the biggest size of container was. In eight years, go to Ikom now, you will see the beautiful bridge. But today, Just 10 to 15 minutes from Ikom to the Cameroon border, you will see another bridge. There is also a Federal Pyrotechnic in Ugep and the information I have is that the Specialist Hospital in Ikom will be completed this year. In 24 years of PDP, please, I would like to know what tangible legacy there is that we can point at. There are lots of arguments in our favour and I believe we have also worked very hard to deserve it.
So for me, my expectation is that on the 25th of February, we will win and we will win again on the 11th of March. The 11th of March is a very straight forward thing, because it is the turn of the South, there is no way the argument can be twisted. I was one of those who made the early comment that this thing had not gone round and that it could start anywhere, but in sober reflection, I realized that we do not have that political sophistication for us to just start, we have not reached that point. If we use that simple, equitable, fair logic, it is the turn of the South.
What is your take on the Ejagham Agenda, playing up ethnic politics in the state?
Now that they have brought this argument of Ejagham, you find the Ejagham people in 12 or 13 out of the 18 local government areas in the state. Akamkpa is predominantly Ejagham head to toe. And that’s is why they speak the same language, like the man from Etung or the man from Big Qua.
Then by the time you get to Ikom and then move to Obudu, you begin to see some dialectical differences, but they’re still the same Ejagham.
I am, in all modesty, a well known Ejagham son and one, I think that a major thing, whether we should produce governor or not, should be discussed. I should expect an invitation and I’ve never received any of such invitation from anybody, so where did you have the meeting, where did we meet, under what forum, under which aegis to decide how and where?
Two, if you say it’s Ejagham, you have a substantial population of Ejagham in the South; instead of you contesting, the senator from the North, Jarigbe is also Ejagham, so why didn’t the senator from Central and North support an Ejagham son, Daniel Asuquo, who’s authentic Ejagham, mainstream. Now you want to turn round and use Ejagham. Ejagham exists in the South, maybe we would have given a turn to an Ejagham person in the South, it is not your turn, it is not your turn.
Like the issue of Labour Party, it was more like a conversation between I and the supporters of labour. Gentlemen let’s not be sentimental, what’s your support base, what’s the name of your governorship candidate? He’s the chairman, so they said he should hold the position until they find a candidate, they haven’t found a candidate and he wants to drop the position. He’s from Ikom, when I go to campaign, I said candidate is from here, they said no and I mentioned his name, they said that’s our name.
Are you saying you don’t support ethnic or religious sentiments in politics?
My driver, Musa has been driving since my son, Bassey, was six months old; Bassey is a father of two today. So, Musa must have been my driver for 34 to 35 years now. He’s a Muslim, he used to claim he’s from Kano. I said, ‘Musa, you’re not from Kano, you’re from Niger Republic, I will not report you to the police. But each time we travel, it was Musa we gave the keys to our house, 34 years. This man sitting here is from Katsina, so this issue of religion, as far as I’m concerned, is elites’ manipulation. I will come to the TV and talk, this Muslim-Muslim ticket is a terrible thing, then I’ll go back and be eating with Kabiru or I’m traveling, I’m leaving my key with Musa, it’s just an elite thing. Hunger knows no religion, poverty knows no religion.
I’ll give you an instance. I go to UAE quite a lot; yes, it’s a Muslim country, but everything you find in United States or Europe are there in UAE; they’ve sent people to space, it’s an Islamic country. In those days, you may note see a single drop of rain in UAE, today they have floods, you know why, they started doing what is called ‘cloud ceding.’
They go to the cloud with electricity and generates atoms and rain falls, so now they are working on the quantity of electricity to use so that they just have the rainfall that they need. It’s an Islamic country. We went to a shop with my wife, she forgot her phone, it was too late to go back, we went back the next day, the phone was where she dropped it.
Now I’ve learnt to carry one phone when I’m leaving the hotel, I have two phones, one for my call and the one I use to do research. One of my phone recently dropped in a taxi in Dubai, and I was going to a shopping mall and by the time I came out the taxi had driven off, so I mentioned my predicament to someone and he said that there was a police post inside the shopping mall and directed me to the police post and I went there, made a report. They said, ‘do you remember the actual time you entered the taxi?’ and I gave them the time, I gave them my hotel address, and three hours later my phone was delivered to me in my hotel.
But what have we done with religion here? Europe is christian and it’s developed using christian principle for their political etiquette.
Islam is a religion of knowledge, they’re not supposed to be poor. You’ll not see a cow on the street in any of these countries, so which version of Islam and Christianity are we practicing here, that elsewhere, both are bringing development, but our own is holding us back.
So I get suspicious when people start seeing things from a religious prism; it’s a sign of laziness, because all the other religions are religion of knowledge, prosperity and of Gods blessings.
In United Arab Emirates, UAE, you dare not talk anything about religion, even though it a Muslim country. Whether Islamic sensitive or Christian sensitive, you will be sent to prison first and then sent back home where you came from.
They have developed. They are everywhere. What do we do with Christianity in Nigeria, we preach miracles and prosperity. No work, no responsibility. You go and bash your car, you blame the devil and your grandma etc. Here in Nigeria, what does Islam do, Boko Haram, poverty against the principles of Islam which is a religion of knowledge.
They are not poor and they are not supposed to be poor elsewhere. How come in our own, it is poverty? You will not a cow anywhere in any of these Islamic countries in the World. A cow on the streets, how? But here we see cows. Which version of Islam are we practicing here in Nigeria? Which version of Christianity are we also practicing here. That elsewhere, Islam is bringing development, Christianity is bringing development?
Our own Islam and Christianity is holding us back. So, I am not comfortable when people begin to see things from the religious point of view. It is a sign of laziness, because all religions are religions of knowledge, of God’s blessings and prosperity. God cannot bless you with poverty, no.
What is your take on the alleged islamisation of Nigeria?
I have heard Sheikh Abubakar Gumi saying that Prophet Mohammed, who founded Islam never succeeded in islamising the world. Jesus who founded Christianity never succeeded in christianizing the world. So, if these two people, who founded these religions couldn’t, then who can? How do you want to do it? If you are persuaded by any religion, please feel free, but to say you are going to force me to your own faith, that is not possible. Religion is something of the mind. If you force the body what of my heart?
The issue of islamising Nigeria cannot work. It is a night mare and will not work.
Were you not part of the wasted 24 years of the PDP in Cross River State?
You know I was a senator and not a governor. I was in the legislature and our job is to make laws. So, if you are assessing me from that point of view, I say in all modesty, the records are there to show with 41 bills and coming second in ranking amongst my colleagues.
Today I am proud to say that some of my bills are laws. The Freedom of Information, FoI, Act, was my bill, the Correctional Services Act was my bill.
I had a number of impactful bills to my credit, so if you are assessing me based on that, I will say I made my contributions to good governance.
In terms of legacy projects, at the level of a legislator, all you have is constituency projects, which are not legacy projects. They are not big enough to fit into the definition of legacy. We visited 92 projects in my consistency. We still had many more. The Faculty of Law, Unical and Unilag are my projects. I had from the mega to the mini projects.
But like I had said, those projects as big as they are, are not legacy projects. I know the role I played to actualize the African Development Bank, AfDB, trans-African highway road to Cameroon up to Kenya.
Yes I was in PDP. The PDP is like that animal that feeds with their children when they are hungry. They feed with their off-springs. PDP is that animal that gives birth to a child and eats it. PDP fattens you before eating.
I was the only leader in the national leadership that didn’t get the ticket to return. I was the Senate Leader, and don’t forget the President was from my zone. I didn’t get the ticket to return. We used to have Executive Secretary, National Planning Commission, Bar. Fidelis Igbo, what happened to him. PDP deceived him out of the office to come and contest the governorship they knew he will never have.
We used to have a General Manager, Crude Oil Marketting, NNPC, Goddy J.D. Agba, they deceived him. They asked him to come and run the governorship race and at least he became an enemy. They just lured every Cross River of note and pulled us down from the national polity. Which kind of party is that? And today on the eve of an election, people will call me to come back to PDP. What for?
Those who caused my problem are still there. And one of them said I hear you are a Catholic and as a Catholic when they slap you on one cheek, you turn the other cheek. And I said, ‘yes, I am a very good Catholic; my own case was bad because, they slapped me in both cheeks at the same time.
When Donald Duke left the state, it was the same PDP that made it very difficult for him to come back. The same PDP made it very difficult for a sitting governor to defect to another party to get fresh air. So what kind of party is that? It is ífot (witchcraft).The party is supreme and remains so. The PDP in Cross River State is no longer a party. It is now a personal property.
There’s tension in the country, what is your advice to Nigerians?
It is my fervent prayer that the elections will be peaceful. God is in control. My appeal to Nigerians is that as stakeholders, we have a role to play to ensure we have a smooth transition during and after the general elections. We need a peaceful elections. We are over 209 million Nigerians. God forbid if we were to have a refugee crisis, what will happen to us. So we all have a stake. Go out there and cast your vote and peacefully return to your homes.
Any politician who wants to engage you on anything untoward, tell him to bring his children to lead.
